One thing that Dethtron and I love is a close fought game between to tightly built armies. For us, that's the essence of competitive play. It not about clubbing baby seals or even going to tournaments. It's just good games with good people. Unfortunately, a big chunk of the reason the false dichotomy between 'casual' and 'competitive' exists is because of one guy. That fucking guy, to be precise. He's not interested in playing a game to the best of his abilities, he's interested in winning. At all costs. But he calls himself competitive and he has clones. GMort has his own, personal Chaotica and humbly put forward this primer to help the world with 'That Fucking Guy".
That Fucking Guy.
We've all had games against 'That Fucking Guy' (which will be abbreviated to TFG from now on).
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| TFG: also known as 'dick head' |
So, what puts someone into the TFG category?
The following list is by no means conclusive nor in any particular order but it does cover all the things that annoy me most.
1) Over Moving or the Zig-Zag.
a) Blatant Over-Moving - Usually seen waving the tape over the vague area the model is in and then moving it about 8" and hoping no-one notices or is too polite to say anything.
b) The Front to Back - Measuring from one point of the hull or base at the start of your move and a different one at the end. Most commonly seen measuring from the front of a models base and then plonking the model down in front of the 6" mark thereby gaining yourself an Inch of movement.
c) The Zig-Zag - Moving the Model 6" then changing your mind, moving the model back to about a mile away from where it started and the measuring your 6" from there.
Suggestions
At the beginning of the game this is fairly easy to counter. Most armies by virtue of there strengths or weaknesses start deployed as close as possible to you or as far away as possible, the measurements for deployment zones are precisely defined so it should be easy to tell if some-things reached you before it should have. Later on it gets trickier but by then you should be reasonably sure if your opponent is prone to this sort of activity so you should get into the habit of noticing where he measures from and what terrain features he was near. Never be afraid to say something if there's an issue as most dick-heads of this nature rely on your politeness to get away with it.
2) Line of Sight/Cover Saves.
a) The imaginary Cover Save - I'm all for giving my opponent the benefit of the doubt (That's probably a lie but it undermines my argument somewhat if I admit otherwise, lol). But I've had some really tedious games where I've spent more time debating whether a unit gets cover or not than I've spent playing. Most of these are of the 'can you see me through that twig variety'.
Suggestions
Read the rulebook. The definitions for Line of Sight and Cover Saves are clearly defined with nice clear diagrams (for a change). But as a brief rule of thumb line of sight for infantry comes from their eyes, Line of sight for vehicles comes from the guns and all guns have clearly defined arcs of fire (again in the rulebook). That said if after all that it is still debatable then let them have the Cover Save or agree to go with the decision of an independent observer and ask someone else to decide. Roll-offs should be a last resort in my opinion.
3) Rules 'Interpreting'
a) Ultimate rules of Doom!!! - If the rule your opponent just told you about seems to good to be true (for him) then it probably is.
b) Bullying - Some Prick saying the same rule in a more aggressive tone doesn't make it any more valid. If it sounds like a load of crap then ask to check.
c) 'Accidental' forgetfulness - 'Oh I forgot I couldn't do that/had to do that'
Suggestions
This ones easy to solve. Always make sure that you and your opponent have the Codices for your particular armies, any FAQ's for your armies (especially if rules have FAQ's or erratas that you rely on for your army), a legible army list and at least one main rule book between you. Easy ;-)
4) WYSIWYG
a) Proxy or 'That coke can is a Drop Pod' - No it fucking isn't, get an actual Drop Pod or fuck off.
b) WYSIWYG - If your model has an impressive Chainsword and you want it to 'Count-As' a Power Sword then that's fine (if a bit lame). Your Assault Cannon is however an Assault Cannon not a Heavy 'bloody' Flamer or a Cyclone Missile Launcher. I don't care if you've paid the points for it or not, anything that isn't WYSIWYG needs to be explained to your opponent before the game starts and a good reason would be nice as well ;-).
Suggestions
1 minute of explaining before the game is better than 20 minutes of arguing in the middle of the game. I'm all for cool conversions, but there should still be some basis for why weapon 'A' is actually a weapon 'B'. Also it should be consistent across your army, If that Tau Burst Cannon is an Assault Cannon then they all should be or none of them should be.
5) Transportation.
a) The Inter Transport Teleportation system - Amazing, the weapon team you need to destroy my unit is in that transport is it?, funny it started of in that one over there!
Suggestions
Always ask what's in transport vehicles, I always put characters on the top of transports they're in and if equivalent units have different wargear I put the 'special' weapon guys on top as well, It's quite reasonable to insist your opponent does the same.
6) Slow Play
a) Thinking about it - If your army consists of 100+ Orks, Guardsmen or Gaunts then you should be thinking about where to move while your opponent is having there turn not for 25 minutes afterwards.
b) You can't have a go - 'Oh look I've just beat you by one objective and we've no time for your go.
Suggestions
If there is any debate about whether you can both get a turn in then stop the game there and then. If your opponent insists (or you yourself would like to risk it), then make a note of Kill Points and Objectives at that point. If you don't both get a turn then use the Score from then.
If anybody has anything to add, or amusing stories about TFG's they've screwed over (or injured in some way) please feel free to comment.
16 comments:
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Not something that's happened to me, but I'd heard from a colleague of mine how he encountered a real TFG at a tournament. This is going to shake things up.
Mate (peering at his Grey Hunters on the tabletop, deliberating tactics out loud): Hmm. Maybe i'll shoot at that squad near the ruins. Or not. I think i'll shoot the Lasback instead. Hmm
TFG: You've just declared shooting. Now you have to shoot at my Lasback.
Mate: Wha? No! I haven't decided yet.
TFG: Haven't you heard? I'm a TFG, read the T-shirt.
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Has anyone encountered such an enigma before? Needless to say, I'm going to inform every opponent at my next Tourney, that until I look them straight in the eye, and pick up dice, I'm simply 'thinking out loud'.
Yes, things have really become that bad when TFG's are walking Nightmares whose legendary dickism brings out the worst paranoia in us nice gamers.
*ticks pepperspray and combat knife on checklist
To add on:
Overmoving
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This really bugs me, because "Measure from and to the same spot" doesn't seem like a complicated concept but a lot of people seem to love that extra inch of movement. Math really is your friend here if you can say "You moved 6, fleeted 6, charged 6 and somehow reached my guys who were 24 inches away?"
Line of Sight / Cover Saves
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Pickup a laser pointer from the dollar store so you can actually see how much of an enemy model you can paint.
Another option is if you can't decide if they get a cover save and it's turning into an issue, offer them a 5+ or 6+ save.
Use flamers.
Slow Play
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Reduce your army sizes or play somewhere you can leave battles setup. Actually getting more than a turn or two in makes a big difference on the outcome of a game.
Pre-Measuring
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This was more an issue back in the day when G" meant you actually had to guess the range, but still happens when people are firing longer range weapons. Sometimes your opponent might just "wander" and "happen" to have their tape measure extended while eyeing the battlefield. A simple polite reminder should be enough to make them zip it up. This is a reason I don't like those measurement sticks.
Another note on this is take notice of how scratched up a gaming table is. Scenery changes, but scuff marks stay.
Firing / Moving the same unit multiple times.
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Swarm armies have a lot of models to keep track of and while honest mistakes can be made, the person playing them really should make an effort to see that they don't. I've seen this more with Imperials / Tau, but getting wasted by a fire line sucks even harder when they lose track of who they've shot with and end up unloading extra shells into you. Suggest (or be the helpful buddy who makes) some "Fired" tokens that can be placed beside units.
Leadership Tests
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People often forget to take their leadership tests and it's usually just as much your fault for forgetting to remind them at the end of your shooting phase. Creating counters also works well here.
Testing a new army by proxy
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It's expensive to start a new army, so using your imperial guard swarm to represent orks is fine for a game or two. But they should be expected to commit and start buying orks. Also, as long as there's imperials painting their skin green, those units should have little signs next to them to explain what they are because there's just no way anyone can honestly be expected to keep all that straight.
Declaring shooting
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I'm pretty sure "declared shooting" doesn't count unless the tape measure gets whipped out.
Hehehe... I like this article a lot.
There's a guy kinda like this at my store. He was "surprised" that he couldn't move his bikes through his own guys who were packed into formation so there was no space. Needless to say, he was less than happy when this was pointed out.
Another fun one is the type who have a dreadnought (or something large) in area terrain and are trying to get it out. They get it to nearly the edge and next turn they try to just move it and hope you don't notice. A raised eyebrow and a "What happened to your difficult terrain test?" puts them nicely in their place. Their glowering makes me smile.
And that, I think, is the key to identifying these guys. In a situation where you call them out on a screw up, they don't apologize (like normal people and most mutants), they scowl and reluctantly follow the damn rules.
I had a guy at a tournament with a massive squad of Nurgle Bikers together with a Nurgle Chaos Lord on Bike. Due to poor deployment on his part he was in position for me to charge him on turn 2 with a standard 105 point Dreadnought, so he charged me first and failed to do anything.
I then rolled my 2 attacks and promptly killed 2 bikers and then the TFG in him came out to play.
First he insisted that his Chaos Lords 'Fearless' rule was passed on to the unit, which it obviously isn't.
He rolled his Leadership, got a 10 and insisted he'd passed...Until I pointed out the test was at -2 due to the 2 bludgeoned to death Bikers.
We rolled for Initiative and I beat him by 1.
As a last ditch attempt at twatishness he tried to tell me that Chaos Space Marines got ATSKNF.
After me having to reach for the rulebook for the 3rd time in as many minutes he removed his 600 point unit and then didn't speak to me at all other than to tell me what he was rolling for till turn 4 at which point he conceded.
Taking the piss even more he described ME as a TFG on a forum a week later when asked about the tournament.
There's a lot of people like that out there unfortunately giving the 'competitive' community a bad name.
I think kennedy's hit on a factor of it.. they scowl and follow the rules.
I think in many situations TFG knows they're breaking the rules - as if there are certain rules to the game that are optional or less important.
And I sometimes wonder if the people they normally play against don't know the rules as well and get owned because of it. I've seen discussions that suggest if your opponent doesn't know the rules, it's their fault when you break them, not yours - which is total bs.
An couple of items missing from the list.
Dice roll;
When rolling picks up successes not failures (well usually a couple of failures too).
Uses large straight sided dice and doesn't so much roll them as let them slide of his hand.
The List
Has all sorts of upgrades on all his stuff (or claims to!) when you add up his list after playing you realise he was well over points.
The tailor - waits till you've unpacked your army before writing his list based on your army.
We have a TFG in the local area who does all of your mentioned things and the stuff I've added.
Nice Article!
The Tailor: I always pull my minis from my box as I field them.
Dice Roll: Goooood point - I've seen lots of people just drop dice on the field and oh look at all those 6's.
Also, yeah, people who after rolling, pick their dice up so fast you can't really see what they rolled - but you see more than a few failures in there.
To add:
Scatter Fail
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When someone rolls a scatter dice and is COMPLETELY wrong in the angle they measure to. Like, glaringly not parallel with the arrow.
Template Counting Fail
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People who seem to fail stupendously at counting the number of models covered by a template.
@ strangedude7 - I thought I was the only guy who ever met TFG who tailors their list after you unpack. TFG must have a big family.
I agree on all points except one: WYSIWYG. If my opponent prior to the game explains what everything counts as, all I demand is that he reminds me what it is the first time he activates a given unit. If I complain about wrong base sizes, misrepresented weapons and all that crap when the opponent has come clean prior to the game then I'm TFG. Only actually modeling purely for advantage and/or confusion is frowned upon from my pow.
In tournaments I've known some people who've been screwed by the time aspect. The LGS has a rule that if you're on the top of a turn with 30 minutes left then that's the last turn. If you're on the bottom of a turn at the 30 minute mark then you can get in another turn.
You'd think it would be reasonable with 29 minutes left on the bottom of a turn to go another turn but I've seen TFG claim that it's the last turn and of course it's in his favor. However, if another turn will favor TFG then he will insist on another turn.
Beer, Beer makes everything better. TFG doesn't bother me as much if I have a brew in my hands.
I've only gotten upset once and it ended up being the tournament organizers fault more so than my opponents.
On the 3rd game of a team tournament we're told that different armies can use each others powers. Holy Game changer batman.
~R3con
MI40k
Whoops, sorry I didn't mean to knock over your models when I assaulted into them. Was it 6 inches? or 7 inches? Guess we'll never know now, you'll just have to take my word for it. I mean, sure I'm right, just look at how loud I'm talking.
Heh, this is a great "thread".
Mentioning modelling - I've seen people convert their armies so everyone is crawling on the ground. Killer for LOS, but legal in battles where conversions are allowed. (but definitely a TFG move)
Less swearing and this would be awsome. There are alot of great hints and tips to deal with at tourney Thanks Cortez 11th Legion
@ Cortez - Take the swearing out and use it on your own blog/forum or whatever if you like. I tend to use swear words like most people use punctuation marks, lol.
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